Wednesday, October 19, 2005

Yeah, that's what I really believe too

"(The) impotence of 'systems' is a main reason why Jesus did not send his students out to start governments or even churches as we know them today, which always strongly convey some elements of a human system. They were, instead, to establish beachheads of his person, word, and power in the midst of a failing humanity. They were to bring the presence of the kingdom and its King into every corner of human life simply by fully living in the kingdom with him." -- Dallas Willard


Blogger Andrew said...

Give that man a hug and a beer a shot of 21 year old scotch, a pipe and a…. well, I’ll drink to that. What a fantastic way to put things. To walk this earth being loved and seeing the Kingdom all around you is truly a beautiful thing indeed.

6:23 PM  
Blogger Phil said...

neo-romantic, individualistic. I like the idea that churches, as we know them today, "always convey some elements of a human system" but apparently the students, as individuals, did not convey elements of the human, but instead were pure, unfallen, and able to establish these beach heads and fully live in the kingdom. I'm sorry, but I am of the opinion that Jesus did establish the church and that, while it may be screwed up, eschewing everything but the foundation provided (not by Jesus!) but by the Enlightenment, is, the essence of what it means to follow a "human system."

12:24 PM  
Blogger Andrew said...

I do believe that what I and I feel Greg is stating is the same as what Paul said in Galatians 2:19 and on.

“What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn't work. So I quit being a "law man" so that I could be God's man. Christ's life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not "mine," but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that.
Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God's grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily.” – The Message

Be it individualistic and neo-whatever it is not me are Greg living in this life. My peer pleasing, legalistic, proud life that I once lived for myself and to show off to others has died. I now live only for the King. Yes I have my faults but I follow no pastor, pope or any other clergy – period. Even Paul, the most religious of his time saw this. I as well as you have only one Master and one Savior – if that isn’t good enough then we are all following yet another religion the same as Buda, Allah or Joseph Smith.

8:09 PM  
Blogger DC said...

Nowhere does the author suggest the students are unfallen. Nor does he suggest they did not convey elements of the human. What he said was that governments and churches convey elements of a human system. That is to say a hierarchy, an organization designed to modify the behavior of the masses until they fit the accepted norm. I do believe that Jesus' intent for his followers was to go into their society and live their lives in Christ (and in his kingdom), although imperfectly, in full view of those outside the body of Christ. He came that we may have life and have it to the full. Phil, am I missing something?

9:47 PM  

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